Interview with Jeff Miles: why law, pursuing a Masters straight after uni, studying during the pandemic, & more
In today’s post, I’m lucky to be interviewing a friend whom I met at a corridor in the Law Building during one of the orientation sessions that we had as Law transferees. Both transferring after completing a year of Arts, we were both excited at finally being able to study law, and as making friends goes, we, alongside a few other faces struck a conversation with each other whilst waiting for the queue to purchase our first ever law books to ease.
Now, both graduates of an Arts/Law degree, I am introducing Jeff Miles. Jeff is currently completing his Master of Laws at Monash University alongside his Graduate Diploma of Legal Practice (GDLP), also known as Practical Legal Training (PLT) at Leo Cussen Centre for Law. In today’s interview, I speak to Jeff about why he chose to study Law as a course after Year 12, how he coped starting his Masters during the pandemic, and how his law journey is currently unravelling.
Q: Since the pandemic last year, we’ve had chats about what a crazy year it has been and how 2020 was so unpredictable. What’s your general feeling right now and towards 2021 in general? Do you have a theme of what this year might be for you? For example, last year due to the pandemic, 2020 became a year of gratitude and reconnecting with loved ones for other people, do you know yet what 2021 might be a “year of…” for you?
A: It seems like with the way things have been going and how (fortunately in Australia) life has almost returned to ‘normal’ that 2021 will be a much better year. Personally, I want this year to be a year of accomplishment. Between finishing the Masters degree I’m currently doing and undertaking a PLT course, being able to accomplish both of those things will be big milestones for me both from a personal and career profession point-of-view.
Q: Let’s talk about new year’s resolutions — how do you feel about them? Do you think they help at all? How do you like to set your goals for the year and how do you assess them by the end of the year?
A: I don’t set New Year’s Resolutions because based on everything I hear about other people setting them, they don’t tend to last long in the first place! I do though set goals for myself both at the start of the year and throughout about things I want to do/accomplish (eg; one of my big goals this year is to finish my Masters degree). Setting clear-cut goals makes it simple for me to assess whether I’ve been able to achieve them or not.
Q: Now let’s rewind back to Year 12, talk to me about how you arrived at studying law at university.
A: To be brutally honest, my mum pushed me into doing law! Part of the motivation behind that is how well people who work in the legal industry are paid. While that might appear to some to be a ‘cynical’ motivation for a mother to push their child into a particular area, I understand why she not only wanted me to study law but eventually wants me to work in the legal industry. As much as we might not want to acknowledge it, the reality is having a job which pays well sets you up to be able to do other things in life from buying a house to raising a family. I want to be able to do those things without having to worry about whether I have enough money or needing to pay back a bank loan (having to repay a uni debt is one too many loans as it is!).
Q: What were your first impressions of what the next few years of law school were going to be like just from attending your first law class?
A: It’s been so long since I started law school that the first class (indeed, the first year) is now a bit of a complete blur for me. While I remember certain aspects, the latter years stick out in my mind more.
Q: What were your fondest moments at university? Do you have any advice for incoming or aspiring law students about how best to navigate their law school journey but also enjoy their social lives?
A: My fondest moments were the moment in the first lecture/tutorial of a unit when I reali[s]ed there were either friends or people I know who were also in the same stream I was. While that might not fit the traditional notion of a ‘fond memory’, they definitely were for me because it meant there were people I know I could turn to if I needed support throughout the unit. Additionally, it also avoided having to be in the position where I had to sit by myself (though it was nice being able to do that for some units too)!
Navigating law school and a social life ultimately comes down to being able to properly balance the two. Spending too much time studying will take a toll mentally because is law is such a complex area to get your head around (particularly when you have to memori[s]e and understand how concepts, legislation and cases all interact with each other). On the other hand, spending too much time sociali[s]ing means you’re going to have to play catch-up when it comes to your studies at some stage. Based on hearing about other people doing that when they’ve fallen behind previously, playing catch-up is really hard to do when it comes to studying law. I know finding the perfect balance between studying and sociali[s]ing is much, much easier said than done. However, it’s essential if you want to be able to do well in law school whilst still being able to do other things as well.
Q: Studying the law can be a bit boring at times, how did you manage to keep interested in the units or subjects that you were studying?
A: By not solely focusing on a single unit for an extended period of time. I found that when I wasn’t able to do that, I would often get to a point where I hit a ‘mental wall’ and not be able to properly focus on what I was trying to do at that time whether it’s working on an assignment or going over something in a textbook.
Q: What was your favourite law unit/subject and why? Do you have advice for students trying to choose what unit they should be doing and why?
A: My favourite unit was one where I had to spend a year writing a research paper on a topic of my choice. I choose to write about sexual harassment in the legal profession (in short, it occurs more regularly than many people would admit and the profession is only just starting to address it seriously). While it was a complex and (at times) difficult topic to research and write about, I really enjoyed doing a research paper unit because not only did it allow me to spend an extended period of time researching a specific topic but it forced me to hold myself to account considering it was really a self-driven unit.
The one piece of advice I would give to students when considering what electives they should do is to pick units they’ll enjoy spending a few months learning about. It’s frankly pointless picking units that you might struggle in just because (for example) they look good on a CV. Instead, you’re far better off picking units you’ll find interesting and therefore do well in.
Q: What was your biggest challenge during law school and how did you get through it? What would you say to those students who may be struggling at the moment?
A: Without a doubt it has to be failing a compulsory unit and hence having to re-do it again. Not only was it a situation I never had to dealt with before but it was honestly quite hard to process and come to terms with because I felt embarrassed and ashamed that I didn’t do enough to pass it. While it took a while for those thoughts to stop dominating my thinking, going through the process of repeating a unit was strangely a very beneficial one. I say that because it forced me to re-examine every aspect of how I studied from how I wrote notes to how I prepared for exams and everything in between. The changes came about as a result of that process (particularly when it came to exam prep) made me a much better student in the long-run. It was ultimately the ‘wake-up call’ I didn’t know I needed until it happened.
Something I reali[s]ed when I reflected on how I did the unit the first time is instead of seeking help when it came to tricky concepts, I just assumed I would eventually understand it after writing notes or doing more reading. As such, what I would say to those who find themselves in a similar situation is if you don’t understand something, don’t be afraid to ask a lecturer, tutor or even a friend to help you. That might sound like a ‘common sense’ piece of advice but it’s amazing how often people (me included at times) are afraid of asking for help when they need it.
NAVIGATING LIFE POST-UNI & STUDYING MASTERS
Q: We’ve recently talked about how we’re currently navigating post-uni life, and how it may not be as easy or as clear-cut deciding exactly what you want to do or confidently committing to what it is you may want to do. What stage of that navigation process are you currently at?
A: I’m at the stage where I know what path I want to go down in my legal career in terms of the area of law I want to practice in. The issue is though I don’t exactly know how to reach that ultimate destination which is both exciting yet terrifying in equal measure.
Q: Talk to me about being in your mid-twenties and what unique challenges that has presented for you, on top of starting out your career? How do you keep yourself motivated and accountable to your goals, but also ensure that you’re practising self-care and not falling into the comparison trap?
A: Probably the biggest challenge has been thinking about sometimes how I’m in my mid-20s and I’m still at university. Part of that is due to how my university journey has progressed — I started off doing an Arts degree than I transferred into a Law/Arts double degree (spent the first year doing both and finishing off the Arts aspects before spending a few years just focusing on Law) and then doing a Laws Honours degree after finishing my undergraduate studies. However, part of it has also been a mini ‘mid-life crisis’ caused by seeing some of my friends who’ve graduated before me now working in the legal profession and thinking about how long it’ll be until I’m in the same position.
As evidenced, falling into the comparison trap is hard. Our minds are geared naturally to always be comparing things from where to go for a holiday to whether we want to be in a relationship with one person over another. I guess in my situation, what’s helped is thinking that what I’m currently doing will help me down-the-track. What I mean by that is while doing a Masters degree has resulted in me doing a few more years of uni compared to most other people, being able to eventually graduate with a Masters of Law will hopefully give me an edge when it comes to my legal career and being able to find a job.
Q: I recently asked you about how you arrived at the decision to study a Master of Laws straight after graduation, what were your motivations for this decision; and how did you decide which university to go with? What were the most important considerations for you?
A: Doing Masters was something I always wanted to do after I finish my undergraduate degree mainly to enhance my prospects of securing a job in the legal industry once I complete my studies. I guess the other reason for wanting to extend my uni journey is it has given me more time (especially during the Coronavirus pandemic) to think about what it is exactly path I want to go down with my legal career — something which has been extremely beneficial.
I’m doing my Masters at Monash mostly due to how the course Monash offers is cheaper than other universities — something which is important after just finishing a long undergraduate degree! Additionally, doing it at the same uni I did undergraduate at made the transition easier.
Q: Tell me about the research paper that you did last year. Give me an overview of what it was about and what you learnt from it.
While researching sexual harassment in the legal profession didn’t change or solidify my aim of pursuing a legal career, it definitely made an impact on me in terms of becoming passionate about the issue. When I began researching, I set up a Google News email alert system so that I would be alerted about (and hence be aware of) news articles published about the topic. It’s been 18 months since I submitted the paper about the topic and I haven’t turned off the email alerts because I want to stay across the latest developments. My passion about the issue is such that if I can land a role in the legal profession, I would like to play some role in addressing how the profession deals with sexual harassment.
Q: What are you most looking forward to this second year of doing your Masters and why?
A: Being able to attend in-person classes once again! One of the big things I looked forward to about doing Masters was having the opportunity to network and meet new people. Neither of those things are just not possible when you’re doing units via Zoom due to the come in/come out nature of them + the randomness of breakout rooms.
Q: Tell me about how the pandemic affected your studies and how you navigated studying online? Do you have any tips for students who may also be studying online this year?
A: Like almost everyone last year, the Coronavirus lockdowns resulted in what I was doing in-person (in this case, attending classes) being done online via Zoom. While there were definitely some benefits which came from that (eg; not having to worry about dressing up and saving time not having to travel to & from uni), not being able to properly talk with other people and the friendships which are formed from doing that was a big challenge for me to overcome.
Aside from adjusting to classes being done online, I didn’t change how I approached studying the units I did nor how I went about doing assignments for them. I think adopting that mindset/approach really helped ensure I was still able to do well with my studies despite everything else that was happening.
Q: We may have already covered this but what was your biggest lesson learnt in 2020?
A: The importance of staying connected with friends. Living in Melbourne last year meant I went through not one but two lengthy lockdown periods whereby the only people I interacted with face-to-face for most of the year were the other members of my family. As such, I felt it was really important to ensure I kept in touch with the small group of close friends I have. Whether it’s participating in Zoom events or sending a message to check how someone is going, all of those small things we once didn’t think much about became really vital things just to keep sane mentally.
Q: What is the next step for Jeff Miles?
A: After finishing uni and PLT this year, finding a way to get a foothold into the legal profession. I ultimately want to have a career in either media or sports law because they are areas of interest for me so doing something that can get me to that destination would be ideal. If I can straight away find a position in either of those fields, that would be even better.
Outside the law: what are your interests?
Q: A key focus of this project is showing lawyers or legal professionals or those working in the law that they are people too, so tell us what you like to do OUTSIDE THE LAW and why?
A: I really enjoy reading for leisure. Not only does it provide an opportunity to think about something other than law but it also allows me to learn about new things and come across different perspectives.
My reading habit manifests itself in two ways. Firstly, I subscribe to far too many email newsletters which means when I check my emails each day, I come across a bunch of articles, interviews, features, etc that interest me. I try and put aside half an hour daily to read the various things I click on — that part of my day also serves as the perfect opportunity to put aside everything I’ve been thinking about for a moment. Secondly, I don’t do this as much as I would like but I try to find time to read non-fiction books and autobiographies. I just find it really interesting reading about people and things which have happened. For example, I’m currently reading ‘Finding Freedom’ — the somewhat ‘unofficial’ book about why Harry and Meghan left the royal family. Reading about how their relationship started and the lengths they went to keep it secret from the media when they started dating was really fascinating.
Q: How did you get into this interest and why do you think it is important to do things outside the law?
A: It’s important to do things outside the law because you simply can’t focus on it all the time. Law is one of those areas whereby if that’s all you think about, you’re going to get ‘burnt out’ really quickly because it can often be demanding and all-consuming. Being able to have hobbies/interests you can do to take your mind off things is really essential.
Thank you, Jeff for sharing your thoughts. It was a pleasure to interview you and get to know your journey in pursuing a career in the law. I look forward to seeing how your legal career develops in the next few years!
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